President Trump Criticizes NASA for Focusing on Returning to the Moon

Editor’s Note: Huh. Did not see that coming.

  • Robert G. Oler

    that “triumph” can be fixed…it was achieved immorally and without honor …it can be fixed

  • Robert G. Oler

    LOL the grand assumption among Trump Trolls and Trump opponents is that Trump has some grand plan or plans to actually accomplish the things he sets out to do

    nothing is further from reality. Trump is a “day trader” in politics he has a time line at best a few days long where he tries to manipulate the media to enhance the notion that he is carrying out the “mandate” that he thinks he got in the eleciton…and the aim of what he is doing is based solely on 1) distracting from bad news about his administration, 2) covering up major failures and 3) getting his goofy base to “cheer” to make him feel good as he watches fox and friends

    PENCE might have had some coherent plan about trying to get a lunar operation going so that there would be some political benefit for him in the 24 times span….but Trump no.

    the problem with the lunar goal however is three fold

    First NASA is as always its bungling self and really cannot execute a program of this size for anything less than “buckets of money” …Two, the space pork implications are far more politically powerful then the sheer notion of a couple of people (WOW THIS TIME A WOMAN) going back to the moon and doing very little (which is what the effort is devloving to) and finally Three in a country that is now running uncontrolled deficits feeding the very wealthy…there is no money.

    its pretty dead Jim.

  • Robert G. Oler


    You just refuse to understand, which is why folks like”

    bordering on Trump like incoherence…are you trying to say “why folks like him”

    who are those people? trump has NEVER commanded a majority of public opinion in the polls, he WON the election as a minority president with about 100,000 votes in three states…his party and him took a beating in the off year elections eeking out modest Senate wins because of the red state divide…and right now he is massively underwater both nationally AND ON A STATE level to various possible opponents

    Who likes him? the folks who are non critical on facts, like a person who is rude, vulgar and LIES LIES LIES all the time…and who seem to posses an ability like you do to ignore the cobbled syntax of what the man actually says and input their own meanings to it. “No Trump really didnt mean Mexico would actually pay for the wall, even though well those were his exact plain simply english words”

    why do you like him? the lies

    “try to manipulate” how exactly is he manipulating “me”…you are the one who believes anything he says

  • Robert G. Oler

    I think that is right on the mark. Trump is as I mention somewhere else, a day tradere in terms of policy…he really cares little other then lining his own pockets and keeping his base cheering

  • Robert G. Oler

    In fact, it is abundantly clear your sort of hate

    what do you like about him? the lying.? are you ok with that. or do you just ignore it

  • gunsandrockets

    Hoping to pack the Supreme Court are you? Good luck with that. It will never happen.

    But please do promote such lunacy, as I expect the Democratic nominee for President will openly campaign for it (at least during primary season!).

    Democratic insanity is Trumps best hope for reelection.

  • Robert G. Oler

    wasting hundreds of billions…

    so tell me Thomas how he has moved to curtail the waste? he cannot stop SLS can he?

  • gunsandrockets

    My sort of hate? Please do go on. Don’t be shy.

  • Vladislaw

    Contrary to your belief that everyone not you is a knuckle dragging primate I know EXACTLY what he said and do not need it translated by Thomas “babblefish” Matula.

    I know what you droned on about ad nauseam when it came to President Obama and “been there done that”. trump babbles the same thing and suddenly it is tablets brought down from Mr. Sinai forged by the hand of god.

  • Vladislaw

    Well said ..

  • Robert G. Oler

    LOL

    any coherent plan to fix the notion of minority rule has to address the GOP court packing that occurred under the GOP senate and the EC…both are in work 🙂

  • Robert G. Oler

    well said “my guts were repaired after they were cut out at the little big horn” Or something like that…hope that I got the name right 🙂

  • Robert G. Oler

    thank you. at some point a coherent space policy has to emerge if there is going to be “any” chance at all of a space “economy” developing that involves humans

    without a doubt we are stuck in human spaceflight. the current scheme of launching really mimics the Conestoga method of transporting people to the west…ie relatively small groups of people using expendable vehicles to carry “them” and a few things …the only difference in the analogy is that the “people” always return but thats just a mission statement…the reality is that the entire effort is completely closed loop and without much hope of expanding

    SpaceX has (alone to them) a notion that they can build “the railroad” to space…and while I am (clearly lol) dubious it is possible (though I think unlikely) that they might stumble along long enough to develop the technology to actually change the lift equation…in a signficant way to change the access equation.

    AT BEST what I suspect they accomplish at least in the “near term” (say 10 years) is the development of lift that makes things like their internet comm system “affordable”.

    and if coupled with that, the system works and is an economic success (again I am dubious but that is somewhere between possible and probable) then the two might form a synergy that finally gets an economic (at least for lift) California…

    which could at some point feed over to human spaceflight.

    there a lot of “Ifs” and “maybes” here…but clearly this effort would be enhanced by some federal government policy that promotes 1) using the space station commercially…ok this might be coming and 2) levers the emerging launch industry by funding a real “go back to the moon” which has at its key point “funnelling” money to private space launch and people launch providers…which would help them as they “stumble” along trying to develop an economical launch technology that actually changes the lift equation.

    In the west it was easy. California provided 1) gold and 2) an amazingly benign settlement environment which was an economic bread basket.

    there is no California in human spaceflight…what we might have to do is hope that the “California” is in fact some economic thing like those internet providers…that might spin off lower access to humans.

    again I am fairly dubious.

  • Robert G. Oler

    Trump world is imploding

  • mike shupp

    Finding a “California” in space might be difficult. (And we might reflect that in the historical California, the typical gold prospector lost his shirt, while people selling tools and hotel owners and shippers carrying laundry from San Francisco to the Hawaiian islands and back and a sprinkling of government workers — marshals and soldiers and claims registrars, etc. — actually made a living. Do we really want to duplicate this pattern?)

    Other hand, we’ve got the example of Antarctica. About a dozen little bases organized by half a dozen countries, each with a hundred or several hundred inhabitants, chiefly scientists and people providing support services. Relatively free movement of people from one spot to another, national governments picking up the tab for construction and keeping people alive and working, with commercial firms functioning as subcontractors. Local sovereignty in terms of laws, but no mining, no farming, no real estate development, no permanent residents.

    This has been in operation for well over half a century, and we know it’s affordable, More importantly, it’s a mode of “settlement” that is acceptable to 300+ oft-contentious national governments, many of them suspicious of “Great Powers” and “Yanqui traders” and the like, and acceptable as well to free enterprise, small government conservatives and other tax-hating individuals. I can easily imagine something like Antarctica as a pattern for lunar exploration and expansion over the next century — indeed it seems to have been the model intended by the framers of the Outer Space Treaty of 1967.

    There are problems, of course. Visiting scientists aren’t the same as permanent residents. Shipping water and food (and clean laundry) from earth to the moon would be prohibitively expensive. “Simplifying” operations by ceding authority to (Earth-based) subcontractors doesn’t lead to self-sustaining commerce. Etc. Over time, as population increases and as local resource utilization becomes possible, we might see a more diverse economy appear.

  • Robert G. Oler

    Mike. color me as a skeptic.

    if we are talking about from a “morality” and other stand point which model is preferable clearly the “Star Trekish” South pole model is.

    but I have given up on that model. we do the South Pole “for cheap” because all teh technologies needed to explore is are being done for other reasons and “life support” is no different there then say in Sweden…or not significantly different. anyway

    I will be surprised if in my life time or say even the next 70 years we get anywhere close to that situation with spaceflight. (I know Musk and Star whatever will do it any time now….but moving off fantasy island)

    even if Musk were to make space access say just four times as expensive as the South pole…for say his internet constellation or whatever…its hard to see the numbers working. First Musk is not gong to invent the technologies needed to survive on the Moon untethered from earth. at the south pole they are essentially untethered for breathing…and except for fuel and spare parts…water

    water and Oxygen alone will consume enormous lift to bring the machines up to gather the frozen water, the machines to convert it the stuff to make the energy…and we havent even started to build yet

    I just dont see the economics of it coming anywhere close to the Poles or any of the other larger bases.

    put it another way …even if cost got down to C130 levels (and they wont) the specific infrastructure needed to survive on the Moon is going to be unique, very complicated and I suspect very very expensive. it has no earth based equivalent

  • gunsandrockets

    I love your newspeak methodology, of twisting the common meaning of a term to fit your ideological straitjacket.

    Clearly you know exactly what I meant by Court Packing. And you try to justify Court Packing by accusing the Republicans of being guilty of it, when clearly Republicans have done no such thing. Real Court Packing, was the tactic which FDR tried to employ (and only partially succeeded at), and a tactic which many Democrats are now again openly advocating for.

    https://www.history.com/this-day-in-history/roosevelt-announces-court-packing-plan

    https://www.cnn.com/2019/05/31/politics/democrats-supreme-court-packing-politics/index.html

    Do you know why a clown like Trump gets elected? Because the Democrats naked thirst for power scares the voters. Because Democrats invent vile tactics like Borking, like Court Packing. Because every time Democrats lose an election they scream “fix!”, and every time Republicans lose an election Democrats gloat “elections have consequences”.

  • gunsandrockets

    I see your doublethink easily embraces the contradictory ideas of ‘minority rule bad’ and support for the Interstate Compact intended to undermine the Electoral College.

    Do you realize that the Interstate Compact you support, only requires a plurality of the popular vote, not a majority? Do you realize that Gore in 2000 and Hillary in 2016 received less than 50% of the popular vote?

    So actually, it is you who is openly advocating “minority rule”.

  • Maxtrue

    The Trump hatred is strong here despite the relative negligence of the Obama administration to consider the economy of space and the obvious path humanity will advance. It is rather sad seeing people who understand space technology fail to understand Liberal democracy and what is at stake at the moment.The myopathy is showing.

    What will directly advance our economy in space now is not Bezos and some small expeditionary team on the moon, but real plans to build out a LEO economy and industry. Lift capacity accelerated over the last few years has a way to go. We need to understand and develop manufacturing in space and exploiting micro-gravity and free energy. Sure, we should divert lots of cash into a fledgling colonization effort that presently would require massive tonnage lifted into space and sent to the moon. This long term effort can only succeed if LEO has a profit making trajectory and a growing industrial and manufacturing capability.

    But no, Trump is an idiot. Brilliant.

    You think China and Russia don’t understand the strategic importance of the high ground? https://www.janes.com/images/assets/463/83463/Russia_develops_co-orbital_anti-satellite_capability.pd I can post several reports on Russian military space activity as well as China’s.

    As far as science, it is clear Trump understands the rads of space, the requirement of lift capability, LEO platforms etc. Perhaps, some are confusing Trump with Biden who declared years ago that missile defense would create an arms race over missiles. The reduction and spin of what the president says is rather incredible. It is insulting coming from from people who profess some objective intelligence.

    On what planet in this solar system would American leaders be unhappy to see preventing millions of illegal immigrants from pouring across our border a crime against our values? Which ones? On what planet would the population ban 250 trillion plus in known fossil fuel deposits rather than invest 1% of that in clean technology? What great Liberal Democracy presses forward with unproven claims of “high crimes” to obstruct a duly elected President his entire first term? On what planet would the former leaders consult with the leading sponsor of terrorism on how to thwart efforts of the present administration to force them to the table?

    Its a complete joke.

    You think Soros gives a crap about the US Space program? He’s more interested in pay-rolling AOC and Kim Fox in Chicago.

    I have always been a Liberal. I will always be a Liberal. So imagine how pathetic things have become when Progressivism is a war on Liberalism and Conservatives of all people now defend the Liberal Red Line against the Left.To have a real Space program you need a national message. The Democrats much to the dismay of JFK’s ghost could care less about space, GDP, Free Speech, Innocent until proven guilty, jobs, and merit not based on the color of one skin, gender or religion.

    TDS has pretty much destroyed the balance of the Democrats as Yang has pointed out. Good luck with that Trump haters. Sure, I would have loved to see a different personality lead our country, I live in NYC, but its policies that count. The only thing standing between me and national failure that the Progressive will bring is Trump whether you love him or not. We will be colonizing the rubbish on the streets of LA if God forbid the Progressives get power. All your space dreams will have to hitch a ride with the Russians and Chinese.

    But hey, the aliens have arrive to save us all from Trump https://www.thedrive.com/the-war-zone/28305/carrier-group-in-recent-ufo-encounters-had-new-air-defense-tech-just-like-nimitz-in-2004-incident Democrats want to know if they’ll vote Democrat.

  • mike shupp

    Well ….another thing. Rising afluence changes our ideas of what is possible and ordinary. Suppose a time traveller from 2019 went back five or six cenuries, armed with PC and tetrabytes of videos, to explain the wonders of today to the King and court of medieval France. Asssume he wasn’t burnt at the stake as a demon and was taken seriously. What wonders he might display! Families eating at Macdonalds, cars and trucks zipping along a freeway, passengers embarking on a 747 and flying over an ocean in the course of a day, a middle class suburban home with television and gleaming kitchens and shelves of books ….
    It’d be mindblowing! But the hardest part of explaining it to the aristocrats and savants of medieval France would be the ecconomics. What? Meat sandwiches so cheap that ordinary people can afford them EVERY DAY? Vehicles powered by burning useless vegetable seepages rather than reliable horses? MILLIONS of these “autombile” things? HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS? Impossible! Hospitals that treat serious ailments rather than shoving impoverished patients to die in the corridors? Flights across oceans costing less than a working man’s weekly wages? Books so cheap that paupers can purchase them? Gigantic ships called aircraft carriers that cost the yearly income of over 200,000 middle class households? INCONCEiVABLE!
    And we pretend this is ordinary? Something settled and sure to happen? Nonsense! These must be the delusions of madmen! Or, maybe, after all and despite what was said earlier, the blandishments of demons. Guardsmen, seize the wretch! Send for a priest! Assemble the logs! Prepare the auto-de-fe!
    Back in our present however … it seems possible to contemplate real economic growth of say 1.5 percent a year (and maybe inflation at the 2% level). Which, in the course of a century, would increase our average American income from 60 thousand a year to a quarter million dollars (or two million dollars in inflated 2120 dollars). And to a million dollars a head in 2019 dollars by 2220 (call it 16 milllion in inflated dollars). With complicated effects — Baumol’s cost disease, for instance.
    What I’m trying to suggest is that our “practical” judgement of what makes economic sense in considering the future of spaceflight might be hampered by our closeness to recent experience. Our great grandchildren might see things quite differently. (I’ll concede, two centuries downstream, the reality of spaceflight might as easily be 16 times worse rather than 16 times better.)

  • ThomasLMatula

    And had already been settled by the Spanish/Mexico before the Democrats under President Polk stole it.

  • ThomasLMatula

    Which was exactly what the writers of the Constitution intended by making America a republic instead of a democracy.

    As for President Trump manipulating folks, really all you have to do is lot at the media coverage this tweet, and blogs posts, received to show how good he is at pushing your buttons. Manipulate doesn’t mean you will get your opponents to support you, it means that you will get them to do what you want. For example getting them to waste time on irrational attacks over things most rational persons wouldn’t give a second thought to so they don’t have time to spend on things that are important.

  • ThomasLMatula

    And it won’t be the first time that mistake was made and then had to be corrected. Study the history of the ICC.

  • Robert G. Oler

    no…court packing is when the opposition IGNORES the basics of the Constitution to get their way..and ignores it by lying about it

    Mitch came up with a stupid reason to not even hold hearings on a nomination …and then when asked if he would use the same logic in a Trump presidency, he said “no”

    thats court packing

    “clown like Trump gets elected”

    three reasons. 1 clowns that vote for a liar, 2) an uninspiring Democratic candidate and 3) an obsolete electoral system which was set up to keep slavery in play

    end of the lesson class dismissed

  • Robert G. Oler

    Which was exactly what the writers of the Constitution intended by making “America a republic instead of a democracy.

    man are you fouled up

    you think making the US a Republic was designed to allow minority rule?

    No no and no. you simply dont understand Republic or you have really drunk the trump koolaide

    “Manipulate” means you achieve a goal through means other than by use of the truth ie “control or influence (a person or situation) cleverly or unscrupulousl

    this is what he does with people like you and you try and do

    you use lies. Republic does not imply “rule by the minority”

    you use deceit. Mexico is not paying for the wall even though Trump on many occassions brought cheers to his rallys by saying they would.

    the Chinese are not paying for the tariffs even though Trump said they would. Its fairly clear Trump used the mexican tariffs as a lie. as he has done time after time again

    and now he has done it here on spaceflight

    the people who are manipulated are those like you who seem to need to explain to us what Trump said, even when it is in perfectly if incoherent english

    being a Republic is not to allow minority rule. seesh

  • Cluebat Vanexodar

    Settled is too strong a word for what Mexico inherited from that brutal and far-flung empire. It’s a good thing that they did not strike gold in California or it would also presently be a third-world dung hole.

  • Andrew Tubbiolo

    WRONG! Thanks for playing! Meet the new boss, same as the old boss. You just got let down by your saviours again. Bet you never read Scalia’s list of exceptions when the Supreme’s ruled that the 2nd Amendment protected individual firearms ownership.

  • Cluebat Vanexodar

    Yeah- I think people should stick to science-ey topics and leave the political baggage at home, but progressives naturally tend pollute the forums, no matter the subject. What needs to be done is to foster the development of an extra-terrestrial economy, and this is what Trump knows, and what NASA fails to grasp. Deregulate space. Allow tourists and thru travelers to use ISS. Give us powerful nuclear reactors (bwxt). There will be tourists on the moon. Especially if they are given rovers to explore and gather specimens to take home and sell. Bigelow and Bezos can squat on any rich lodes they find and occupy the sunny highlands.
    There is money to be made. We do not need the same bureaucratic stranglehold which keeps Antarctica from being developed to doom our planet by replicating it in space.

  • Cluebat Vanexodar

    Yes to this. And now that they have stumbled into creating the Trump presidency, they are also beginning to realize that they also have given him the opportunity of redemption and a big league legacy. It is happening before their eyes, and totally driving them nuts.

  • gunsandrockets

    ho ho ho

    I’m very well aware of all the relevant cases. Including cases before and after the DC v Heller ruling. The next big SCOTUS ruling on the scope of gun-rights will be announced before July 2020. That should make for a very interesting election year.

    I look forward to the majority opinion written by Justice Thomas.

  • gunsandrockets

    Democratic Hubris begat their Nemesis. Who knew that nemesis would be Trump?

    And the irony is, the Democrats chose the form of their destructor. It’s as funny as the Staypuft Marshmallow Man in Ghostbusters. As it was the Lefty Press who boosted Trump into winning the Republican nomination.

    https://66.media.tumblr.com/c4b4d44096b1b5fbff05cb0cb329e35b/tumblr_oyaysbAFGQ1wdxwgro2_500.gif

    Sure, the Lefty press got a lot of yucks and a lot ratings by pumping up Trump during the primary season. But all that free publicity also greatly aided Trump in winning the Republican nomination. And as one or other likely rival to Trump rose up, a more credible Republican for defeating Hillary, the Press gleefully smacked down that challenger with negative coverage.

    The Lefty press knew exactly what they were doing. Putting their finger on the scale, to defeat Republicans they feared like Cruz, and to promote Trump who they thought was a sure loser.

    But he wasn’t a sure loser after all. D’oh!

  • ThomasLMatula

    No, it means you have never studied the history of the Constitutional Congress. It was designed so minority viewpoints wouldn’t be crushed by the majority. Instead compromise would need to be reached to get things done.

  • ThomasLMatula

    And Turkey is a democracy except when someone wins from a different party than the President over rides the results like the Democrats tried to do in the 2016 election. But I guess living in Turkey is why you think presidents rule.

    News Flash, unlike Turkey the President doesn’t rule America, nor does Congress or the Supreme Court. All three have to work together, to work out compromises, for government to function. After living overseas so look you probably need to retake your civics class. Or study the history of the constitution convention in 1787.

    You see that is what make a republic different than democracy, check and balances requires the different states and different branches of government to function. No one, neither majority or minority, is ruling as in a dictatorship or under the old model of monarchy.

  • Robert G. Oler

    right now the minority are ruling the country. ie less people want republican right wing rule then want something else…that has been clearly demonstrated in vote after vote after vote…

    but by viture of a vote in Wyoming counting more then a vote in California…the right wing persist even though its force is ebbing

    I dont have a clue why you bring Turkey into this, i didnt and it is not germane to a discussion on American government or politics…unless of course the answer is that you are Trumpian like trying to deflect from a weak standpoint.

    “You see that is what make a republic different than democracy, check and
    balances requires the different states and different branches of
    government to function

    nope you are confusing the notion of federalism…which has nothing to do with a republic or democratic form of government

    the constitution was set to make sure that the rights of minorities were protected in the face of majority suppression. that is NOT the same as a minority being able to rule the majjority

    you have the right to believe what you want to about abortion, you dont have the right to enforce those views on me and my wife for instance.

    F minus in civics …you are becoming a Trumpian.

  • Robert G. Oler

    one more point…you are the guy who follows the idiot who made the tweet which is the subject of this thread. dont lecture me on following idiots