ATK Liberty Announcement

Comments

Kent Rominger
VP, Strategy and Business — Space Launch Systems, ATK

ATK has a complete system now….

  • Composite Crew module that Langely was working on — alternative to aluminum capsule — essentially a scaled down Orion MPCV — heat shield not as strong (not coming back from the moon)
  • Service module — a modified version of what has been developed for Orion MPCV
  • Abrt system — Max Launch abort system — been tested once.
  • Lockheed now a major subcontractor on the team

Rapid execution — 2015 is when I’m going to fly crew

Our system is the safest system ever designed to fly humans into space
We have a robust business case
We are extremely complettive — been working very hard on it….

Unprecedented solution that will be here a long time

Starting out with a system that is designed for crew — can take out redundant systems for satellite launches

Don’t need all the capability of the rocket for crew system — can carry extra fuel for station reboost, unpressurized cargo….

Baseline is a water landing — need to be able to land in the water in the event of an abort

Contingency for landing on ground — not as good for reusing spacecraft

Progress to date:

  • Composite crew frabricated and tested, including burst test
  • water drop tests validated recovery concepts
  • successfully completed acoustic testing
  • crew member flight suit evaluation completed
  • service module design and optimized for ISS crew and cargo delivery
  • Pusher abort system called Max Launch Abort System developed by NASA and industry
  • NASA Wallops completed successful pad abort test
  • solid propulsion main engines and jettison motor

Crew training starts at T minus 3 to 6 months — will make the system as user friendly as possible

  • Liberty is being designed from start for human crew launches…trajectory will allow crew to survive a failure
  • Other rockets have black zones in their trajectories where the crew will not survive even with an abort system

Solid Rocket booster flew 110 times after Challenger without a problem — learned from mistake, makes the rocket the most reliable rocket in world

Astrium’s John Schumacher

  • Ariane 5 has flown 47 times successfully
  • Liberty uses Ariane 5 first stage
  • Stage needs to be strengthened and modified for air launch — work is underway
  • Stage now made in Europe — eventual plans are to bring production to the United States
  • Proven experience of ATK, Lockheed and Astrium greatly helps with process, launching and operations
  • Astrium brings expertise in launching and docking ATV at ISS — helpful in docking crew vehicle
  • 10 flights for reuse with water landing

Markets

  • ISS crew (competing in CCDev/CCiCAP)
  • U.S. government satellite
  • NASA cargo up and down
  • Tourists
  • Other nations and private company ”shuttle spacelab” type crewed missions

Experience

  • ATK, Astrium and Lockheed Martin bring decades of expertise
  • Taking a streamlined approach to building the system
  • Can fly any spacecraft that NASA approves for going to ISS with a lot of capacity left over

Q&A

1.  How do you know if the 5-segment SRB can handle the load if you have only done three ground tests?

Rominger: Have done three ground tests. They came in exactly as predicted. And we have done a lot of analysis.  We feel very confident that we will not need any mitigation.

2.  How many flights is it good for?

Rominger: 10. We’ll know as we get toward flights 8 or 9 we’ll know if it can launch beyond 10 launches.

 3.  Will second stage be reusable?

Rominger: The entire rocket is expendable. Although we recovered SRBs on shuttle missions, our business case shows we’re better not recovering them.

4.  What happens if Liberty is not funded in next round?

Rominger: Yes. All development on Liberty has been on discretionary funding from the companies. Can’t meet the 2015 date without

5.  How much for a flight?

Rominger:  It’s less than what we’re paying the Russians for human flights aboard Soyuz. In blackout on competition for CCDev funding. Can’t specifically answer question on cost.

6. Targeted first flight?

Rominger: Two abort tests planned for 2014 — pad and in-flight. Two test flights in 2015 — one with a two-member crew aboard.

7.  What’s up with service module?

Rominger: Will do whatever NASA decides to do. American service module is the baseline for Liberty system. If NASA goes with European one, it is built by partner Astrium.

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  • AB

    Both the composite crew capsule and MLAS tests were low-cost, fast-paced R&D programs run by the NASA Engineering & Safety Center, outside of much of the normal NASA political/bureaucratic logjam. NESC draws on subject matter experts from *all* NASA centers across the country to do its work, so their efforts can match the best people to the job….

    If these technologies fly it will be a huge return on a small investment and a good example of what can be accomplished by NASA when problems are approached from the technical side of “solve problem/gain experience/develop technology x” and not the “employ people in Congressional district x for a giant boondoggle project” side. It’s the way NACA operated when they did a lot of the research that gave us air transport as we know it, and if Congress hadn’t forced SLS onto us, NASA would be doing a lot more things like this.

  • Robert Clark

    In response to question 3 he says the entire rocket is expendable. But to question 2 he says expects “10 flights”. What is he referring to there?

    Bob Clark

  • http://www.webstore.com/104943,owner_id,other_items gaetano marano

    -
    -
    the ATK Liberty rocket design is for 99% the SAME of the Ares-1 … same 5-segments SRB as 1st stage … similar dimensions and amount of propellents for the 2nd stage … pretty similar 2nd stage engine since the (non air-startable and non man-rated) Vulcain 2 of the Ariane5 1st stage has the same vacuum thrust of the J-2X developed for the Ares-1
    -
    also, the idea to use the Ariane5 1st stage for the Ares-1 2nd stage (to save time and money) was FIRST proposed by ME in this April 12, 2007 article:
    -
    http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles/024aresF.html -
    -
    but there are TWO BIG differences between the Liberty rocket and the Ares-1
    -
    the first difference is its PRICE of only $180M per launch and no R&D money wanted by ATK, while the price of each Ares-1 launch was expected to be several times higher (the Ares 1-X muckup lunch with a standard SRB and no 2nd stage costed $480M) and to develop the Ares-1 ATK, Boeing, P&WR and NASA wanted over 8 years of time and $35 billion of R&D costs!!!!!
    -
    http://www.ghostnasa.com/posts2/051ares1price.html -
    -
    the second difference is that, despite the Liberty rocket is absolutely THE SAME of the Ares-1 for engine/motor thurst, propellants, etc. it’s NOT ABLE to carry the 32 tons mass of the lunar Orion+LAS+Service Module (as planned, always assured, promised to politics, claimed for years by NASA and ATK) but a total payload of only 44,500 pounds (as per ATK press release) that are only 20,184 kg
    -
    this CLEARLY means that what I’ve said in my Nov. 4, 2007 ghostNASA article (and updates) “The Ares-1 can’t fly” was RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT and the ATK and NASA claims was WRONG WRONG WRONG (or, simply, they haven’t said the truth about the Ares-1 …)
    -
    http://www.ghostnasa.com/posts/012arescantfly.html -
    -
    anyhow, the very tall ATK Liberty rocket is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY to launch the 20-tons ATK composite capsule (or another similar vehicle) since it can be launched (much easily and quickly) with a (man-rated) Ariane5 that is a ready available and relatively cheap ($250M) rocket and is able to carry up to 21 tons of payload to LEO
    -
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5 -
    -
    that, after all, is what I’ve already suggested for the Orion SIX YEARS AGO in this article:
    -
    http://www.gaetanomarano.it/articles/010arianecev.html -
    -
    -

  • http://www.webstore.com/104943,owner_id,other_items gaetano marano

    -
    -
    the ATK Liberty rocket design is for 99% the SAME of the Ares-1 … same 5-segments SRB as 1st stage … similar dimensions and amount of propellents for the 2nd stage … pretty similar 2nd stage engine since the (non air-startable and non man-rated) Vulcain 2 of the Ariane5 1st stage has the same vacuum thrust of the J-2X developed for the Ares-1
    -
    also, the idea to use the Ariane5 1st stage for the Ares-1 2nd stage (to save time and money) was FIRST proposed by ME in this April 12, 2007 article:
    -
    gaetanomarano.it/articles/024aresF.html -
    -
    but there are TWO BIG differences between the Liberty rocket and the Ares-1
    -
    the first difference is its PRICE of only $180M per launch and no R&D money wanted by ATK, while the price of each Ares-1 launch was expected to be several times higher (the Ares 1-X muckup lunch with a standard SRB and no 2nd stage costed $480M) and to develop the Ares-1 ATK, Boeing, P&WR and NASA wanted over 8 years of time and $35 billion of R&D costs!!!!!
    -
    ghostnasa.com/posts2/051ares1price.html -
    -
    the second difference is that, despite the Liberty rocket is absolutely THE SAME of the Ares-1 for engine/motor thurst, propellants, etc. it’s NOT ABLE to carry the 32 tons mass of the lunar Orion+LAS+Service Module (as planned, always assured, promised to politics, claimed for years by NASA and ATK) but a total payload of only 44,500 pounds (as per ATK press release) that are only 20,184 kg
    -
    this CLEARLY means that what I’ve said in my Nov. 4, 2007 ghostNASA article (and updates) “The Ares-1 can’t fly” was RIGHT RIGHT RIGHT and the ATK and NASA claims was WRONG WRONG WRONG (or, simply, they haven’t said the truth about the Ares-1 …)
    -
    ghostnasa.com/posts/012arescantfly.html -
    -
    anyhow, the very tall ATK Liberty rocket is COMPLETELY UNNECESSARY to launch the 20-tons ATK composite capsule (or another similar vehicle) since it can be launched (much easily and quickly) with a (man-rated) Ariane5 that is a ready available and relatively cheap ($250M) rocket and is able to carry up to 21 tons of payload to LEO
    -
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ariane_5 -
    -
    that, after all, is what I’ve already suggested for the Orion SIX YEARS AGO in this article:
    -
    gaetanomarano.it/articles/010arianecev.html -
    -
    -

  • http://www.parabolicarc.com Doug Messier

    The rocket is expendable. The spacecraft is being designed for 10 flights.

  • banner man

    Has there been anythng involving rocketry/space tech in the last 20 years that Gaetano has not claimed to be the guy who came up with it?

  • Robert Clark

    Thanks for the response, Doug. I did suspect that’s what he meant, though it was confusingly phrased.

    Bob Clark
    Blog: exoscientist.blogspot.com

  • EarthlingX

    “Solid Rocket booster flew 110 times after Challenger without a problem — learned from mistake, makes the rocket the most reliable rocket in world”

    5-seg booster has not flown yet. It is not only a segment more than Shuttle boosters, it is also wider and has different internal structure (more ribs), therefore different, not flown yet engine, with no safety record.

  • Marcus Zottl

    So they admit, that refurbishing SRBs is actually more expensive than building them new from scratch? I’m not surprised, actually.